Comments on: Clippers’ comeback falls short, Kings win 128-127 https://213hoops.com/clippers-comeback-falls-short-kings-win-128-127/ L.A. Clippers News and Analysis Sun, 05 Mar 2023 15:46:47 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.3.20 By: KingAlfonse https://213hoops.com/clippers-comeback-falls-short-kings-win-128-127/#comment-42192 Sun, 05 Mar 2023 15:46:47 +0000 https://213hoops.com/?p=18357#comment-42192 Yeah we were spoiled by Jamal and Lou in that role as well. Obv both were worse defenders than Norman (who’s not good but relatively speaking) but just much much much more consistent and reliable on offense.

Norm has utility but Ty treats him like he’s the 3rd best player on the team a lot of times.

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By: WhyNotTyler https://213hoops.com/clippers-comeback-falls-short-kings-win-128-127/#comment-42189 Sun, 05 Mar 2023 12:40:36 +0000 https://213hoops.com/?p=18357#comment-42189 Appreciate the comment addressing a lot of things and trying to come up with a nuanced take. Nonetheless I gotta say, you’re jumping to big conclusions that mostly don’t hold up. While I agree on quite a bit of the rest (e.g. that Russ tries his best but has his limitations), I’m having a hard time with other takes:

– Russ is killing the first unit because the defense isn’t there…

For that to be true, Russ would have to be bad on defense and others clearly better. Not seeing that:

A) The strength of schedule was way above-average while playing several elite offensive teams.
B) Nobody played defense in the first Kings game. Was Russ awful on defense in that game? Yes. Was anybody not awful? No.
C) What has Russ done in the other games? Denver: best defensive rating by a mile (14 points). Team lost in OT without Westbrook. Minnesota: defensive rating around the team average. Warriors: bad game, the opposite of Denver. Second Kings game: around team average. Overall, this equals out to average defense, something confirmed by…
D) His defensive rating on the Clippers is 113. For context: that’s tied with PG, Kawhi and Batum for their season average. The difference being that Russ is the only one of those guys who only played strong teams. Everybody else got a ton of games vs the bottom-feeders in.

That’s not to say Westbrook is an awesome defender, he can be great, terrible or average. It’s to say that the statement doesn’t hold up.

The same happens when we look at stats like BPM or clutch data. Westbrook is a minimum contract for the Clippers who puts up better numbers vs better competition than Wall, Kennard, Zubac or Morris did vs a weaker schedule – according to BPM. He’s about tied with Mann, Powell and Batum. We can also look at plusminus, then Westbrook has obviously been a negative after 5 losses but the truly negative minutes came from Wall, Powell, EG and Coffey. But that’s a team stat that’s less fair, Powell has rightfully been in the discussion for 6th man.

Point is we can’t jump to other conclusions or announce this or that as the problem or the fix. There is no one fix or problem, it’s a multitude of those. If we wanna talk about single players and their role though, then it makes sense to start with the guys who very obviously deserve more or fewer minutes indicated by data across the board. That in turn will lead to better team stats overall. E.g. RoCo or Plumlee are pretty obviously solid players. Morris obviously is not – this season. He could be the situational guy when you need offense, spacing and better shooting. But sure as hell he ain’t outplaying Covington.

Turnover rate and closing with Russ are other interesting narratives. His individual turnover rate is high, so are his assists. What happens to the team or other players who replace him in the role as a creator? Vs Warriors that might make sense as Golden State turned Russ into a clear negative after the first quarter. Minnesota? Boy, they all threw the ball away left and right and were vulnerable to Minnesota’s defensive strategy. Look at the Lakers team turnover rate – after Bron joined the team (bottom 5/bottom 10), after Westbrook joined the team (19th, then 8th), during Bron’s injury when Russ and AD led and they played a more team-oriented style. Check the clutch data. There’s big negatives there like abysmal free throw shooting but there’s also a terrific assist-to-turnover ratio, a ton of steals, rebounds and a plusminus (-0.5 on a team that’s worse than that) that’s surprisingly solid. And there’s much better clutch shooting in the second half of his season.

I don’t know the fixes either, I just know Westbrook’s game inside and out. It’s not as simple as narratives suggest (with the lack of shooting being the only exception). Russ shot way better with Houston for a reason, he’s off to a good start with the Clippers and I could really see that continue to a certain degree (45-47% maybe, not 53). Let him facilitate, give him scoring around, his shot attempts will go down, shot quality up.

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By: Oodypkt https://213hoops.com/clippers-comeback-falls-short-kings-win-128-127/#comment-42188 Sun, 05 Mar 2023 10:12:09 +0000 https://213hoops.com/?p=18357#comment-42188 IMHO, there are some confusing things happen this season:
=> Let I-Hart walk, sign Wall and let him play quite a lot.
=> No real Backup C until Plumlee.
=> Mann, RoCo and Coffey gets less/inconsistent to no playing time, compared to last season.
=> Trade Luke and Reggie. Seeing Cool Hand Luke and Big Govt on the the West’s rival is so hard man.
=> Then, we sign Westbrook despite the clear vision of PG that Frank explains.
=> Oh and play Mook too many minutes.
Getting back Kawhi and gradually working him into the rotation is not easy.
Changing lead ball handler, so many times in the same season, sound difficult to me.
Everyone on the team feels the effect of uncertainty.
And trade deadline that directly yield the championship in the same year are so rare. Getting Sheed was really huge for those ’04 Pistons team and that’s almost 20 years ago. (I’m too tired to look at another years)
All of the changes and adjustments above are more or less affecting the team, in terms of continuity and maybe chemistry.
But I don’t believe anyone in the organization try to sabotage the whole team.
We try. Sometimes it works, many times it fails.
But I believe we try.
Last game against the Kings is the first time in a while that I feel like they are desperate to win.
They want to win so bad. They don’t care who make a shot or make an error.
They all want to win for each other.
This is huge. Team sport are based on the fact that you need your teammate to succeed.
MJ’s legacy will be different if Kerr couldn’t hit that shot.
Same as Lebron’s for Rebound Bosh-Back to Allen-BANG.
You want guys you can trust to make things happen.
TBH, I still believe in Luke & Reggie to hit the big shot. I’m not so sure about Westbrook.
But it is what it is. And other than our 213, Mann/Batum/RoCo are my choices to take them anyway so i’m fine with that. (EJ & Mook also seems like a big shot taker)
And I still believe in Ty.
Dude roll out James Jones and he hit anything for them.
Then, he make Frye & TT a champion as a big duo.
He’s gambler, he said it himself.
He will try the weirdest sh*t and it can miserably fail.
But if it works in the most crucial moment, I’m here for it.

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By: CrossRoads https://213hoops.com/clippers-comeback-falls-short-kings-win-128-127/#comment-42187 Sun, 05 Mar 2023 10:10:27 +0000 https://213hoops.com/?p=18357#comment-42187 The most ideal is for him not to play the 1 at all, but Ty is the HC. Therefore … make do with this fact

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By: osamu6238 https://213hoops.com/clippers-comeback-falls-short-kings-win-128-127/#comment-42186 Sun, 05 Mar 2023 10:01:54 +0000 https://213hoops.com/?p=18357#comment-42186 Definitely I think Kawhi and PG deserve another shot together. I mean I wouldn’t put it 100% past them to demand a trade, which would be another story all together, but if it’s up to the FO, they have to give themselves another shot to surround PG and Kawhi with the right roster and possibly the right coaching.

The big question to me is how confident are they in PG and Kawhi long term? I think this season makes them definitely think very very hard about moving the 2 picks available to them in a trade in like 2028 and 2030? to improve the roster around them. Even just one of the picks for a minor upgrade is probably not worth it given the long term outlook.

Kawhi and PG also both can opt out after next season, so what do you do when they’re both free agents at like 33 and 34 respectively. I mean if they haven’t won a chip by then, would you max them out again? Or would they consider just walking away that summer and you’re left with nothing? Makes it at least a strong possibility you have to consider what their trade values are this summer or by the deadline next season. Because if you don’t feel like they’re worth another $250M+ contract, then you might have to move them sooner rather than later.

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By: John Maclean https://213hoops.com/clippers-comeback-falls-short-kings-win-128-127/#comment-42185 Sun, 05 Mar 2023 09:45:23 +0000 https://213hoops.com/?p=18357#comment-42185 So spot on. Let’s see if we can’t get an exhale vs the Beleaguered Griz and reboot. The chip may be beyond grasp but respect may still be within reach.

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By: chogokin https://213hoops.com/clippers-comeback-falls-short-kings-win-128-127/#comment-42184 Sun, 05 Mar 2023 09:05:47 +0000 https://213hoops.com/?p=18357#comment-42184 PG13 does NOT need to be thinking pass first and sure as hell shouldn’t be playing PG – why the heck would we bother picking up Russ, Bones, and EJ if we were just going to force PG13 to play PG again? Dude is a TO-machine (though not as much as Russ) and Ty needs to keep it at simple as possible for him.

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By: chogokin https://213hoops.com/clippers-comeback-falls-short-kings-win-128-127/#comment-42183 Sun, 05 Mar 2023 09:03:02 +0000 https://213hoops.com/?p=18357#comment-42183 Whoa whoa whoa….a LOT of that was news to me – we were going to bring in Conley AND keep Hart? I realize now’s not the time since the season is going on, but can I request a rumor mongering article in the offseason?

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By: Lucas Hann https://213hoops.com/clippers-comeback-falls-short-kings-win-128-127/#comment-42182 Sun, 05 Mar 2023 08:01:56 +0000 https://213hoops.com/?p=18357#comment-42182 Yeah, so like 2021 draft was a swap year, but OKC was worse than us, so we kept pick 20-whatever and got Keon.

But 2022 was an outright year, so no matter how bad we were, OKC got our pick with no strings attatched.

If it was swaps even years and outright odd years, we would have had a chance to lean into the tank last year and get a top-10 pick.

Literal insult to injury lol

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By: CrossRoads https://213hoops.com/clippers-comeback-falls-short-kings-win-128-127/#comment-42181 Sun, 05 Mar 2023 07:42:10 +0000 https://213hoops.com/?p=18357#comment-42181 Playing point, trigger happy PG needs to think pass first and as the offense flows, if the ball comes back to him, do his catch and shoot which is his strength.
Ty has been allowing PG as the pg to play hero ball previously even early in the shot clock, game in and game out and he has never been shy. Some conscience is badly needed.
The double teaming of PG was a blessing to Clips offense which resulted to ball movement. He needs to involve the other 4 as the lead ball handler.

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