I’m with RF–I kind of like everything that Khyber is saying and I respect his strong opinion, but I think I disagree on almost all of it.

It seems reductive to think of it as a typical trade deadline deal, that should have been aimed at making a deep playoff run. Or that you end up with TMann, having vaulted the Clippers into a better playoff run, with more value than where things are with Bogi’s value after his disappointing performance against Denver. Things never went smoothly for TMann as a Clipper, and it’s a fantasy to think that he would have jumped into a solid role in the latter half of the season and then led the team into the playoffs.

Another quick initial note is that the TMann-Bogi and KPJ deals were separate transactions, and they probably shouldn’t be lumped together. KPJ’s expansive minutes were weighing down and hurting the Clippers through their first 45 games. Taking him away as an option for Ty Lue was a crucial element of the Clippers’ late season excellence. Could TMann have stepped in and taken the vacated KPJ minutes the way that Bogi did? With Ty Lue coaching, and TMann’s low shot frequency, it seems unlikely.

I’d also dispute the note that TMann had a high shot volume in ATL. It went up a notch or two, but it was still below acceptable levels. I’m doing some comparisons, and the regular season (30 games) Bogi advantage was real. Start with 3s: Bogi 61-143/.427 vs. TMann 34-88/.386–there’s an 80 point differential there, and we also know the value of the 55 additional attempts. Bogi led in ASTs 97 to 62, and they were actually even rebounding 93 to 92, where you think TMann would have a bigger advantage. TMann’s 2 point numbers were gaudy 84-130/.646, but Bogi was solid at 66-125/.528, and Bogi’s 50 additional total shots and 50 additional total points are significant.

I’m not disputing the idea that TMann wouldn’t have been a much better player for the Clippers in the playoffs. I happen to believe that. But I also think that it was the right time for the Clippers to move on from him, and getting Bogi back was a great trade. I think Ty Lue and the Clips messed around with TMann for years, rather than giving him a featured role (bringing in Westbrook, and the Harden trade had a big impact). He had the opportunity to seize that featured spot at the beginning of the season, just like Norm and Zu did, but he didn’t step up, and then he got hurt.

Bogi had a very rough start on the Clippers–which makes the numbers that he eventually reached that much more impressive and promising. He did things, putting up shots and hitting them and getting hot at times, and moving the ball and making the offense go both with Harden on and off the floor, that made the Clippers better and more effective. It was refreshing to see the ball movement and shooting in the KPJ minutes, and him putting up 3s and getting to 42% replacing TMann.

As far as the playoffs go, I put a lot of Bogi’s failure down to being on a new team. It was unfortunate and bad and worse than that, as Bogi suddenly seemed to be cursed, nothing going right, missing shots, fouling, and turning the ball over. And he should have been steady and productive, with his international experience and veteran status. My view is that the Clips got hit by an unburdened, talented, experienced, urgent Denver team, and Bogi still working his way into a new role became a focal point for their thrust. Westbrook beat the Clippers (and returned to being Russ against OKC) and Bogi played a big role in losing, while TMann would have had solid Clipper playoff experience and been a better fit. Too bad.

But I’m very bullish (Club O offseason assembly!) on Bogi as a Clipper. He took the bench scoring role that Norm vacated in becoming a starter, and he was better at it in a number of ways. His game was a pleasure and a joy to watch once it got going, and I think he’ll be a playoff stalwart next year when the Clippers make their run. The deck is going to get shuffled a little bit this offseason I expect, but I don’t think that Bogi is going anywhere and it’s going to be exciting to see him excel all season.

Similar to the Lob City era, while the stars will always be the ones that take the blame for the playoff losses, it’s been the disappearance by the role players that really swung a lot of those series. Lob City teams were supposed to go 10 deep, this team was supposed to be at least 8 deep and have a far bigger bench advantage, but the benches barely had an impact on the series (outside of Westbrook).

Still have always been a fan of Bogi’s game, but for the first time watching him on a night to night basis, definitely feels like he struggles with consistency. I guess if he was a consistent producer, he might have lived up to those star level hopes that people get when they watch him play internationally.

But, “[t]he trade did not work because Bogi could not replace the youth and physicality of a T-Mann or KPJ. He also couldn’t defend as well, nor was he able to shoot the 3 ball as well”

— The above is a very accurate statement about Bogi’s performance in the Playoffs.

The trade did not work because Bogi could not replace the youth and physicality of a T-Mann or KPJ. He also couldn’t defend as well, nor was he able to shoot the 3 ball as well.

I have little doubt that T-Mann would’ve been a much better fit for the Denver series. The coaching staff should’ve worked with him to get the most out of his game much as they had done the prior season when he was a productive 5th starter on a loaded unit. T-Mann had a high shot volume in ATL and shot over 40% from 3. If they had him in the starting rotation (assuming they worked the kinks out w/Harden), the Clips would’ve had more possessions where they played 5 v 5 on the offensive side of the ball and would’ve won the series fairly easily. Sometimes, the trades you make…..suck, even if the theory was good.

That T-Mann contract now would be movable given the free agent and draft class that is emerging. Bogi’s contract will be tougher to move given his age.

As much as KPJ was a rough watch, I also don’t doubt that he would’ve been a better fit at both ends overall than what we got out of Bogi and Dunn. Dunn wasn’t playable in the series and his defense was frankly overrated.